Curse

agrios · Mar 15, 2012, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Now that I finally got tru WoC HM some questions arise:

1) What to do with 3 Rits? Is this setup worthwhile or should I turn Razah into another class ? (For example, a 3rd Mez to roll PVE with Psychic Instability/Energy Surge + Panic + Ineptude)??

2) Is a Rit primay as good as a Necro Healer with the Xinrae Weapon build? I tried this yesterday and found the results were good, and Zei Ri didnt seem to run out of energy - energy management goes with "Energetic was Lee Sa". So far I could say "yes" but I'd like to hear from you more experienced players.

Jeydra · Mar 15, 2012, 02:52 PM // 14:52

At the moment this is what it looks like to me -

Having a ST in addition to SoS and SoGM can be useful in some select areas. Otherwise using the third Rit is typically inferior.

Having a third Mesmer is useful in some areas as well. A third Domination Mesmer overlaps a fair bit with having two other Domination Mesmers, Illusion Mesmers are typically unnecessary. There're a few more options out there like Extend Conditions and Panic and Psychic Instability but I find they're typically worse than bringing more straight damage ... but a third Mesmer has its uses in some areas.

Beyond that, there's not much difference.

If you're making a healer, know what you're aiming for. If all you want is pure healing, a N/Rt is probably unbeatable. It's not just running out of energy; you also want the hero to be able to cast all the time (Lee Sa takes 2s to cast, and it overlaps Kaolai, which is one of the most powerful skills out there - Necro energy management is almost entirely passive). You can also run some strong heals with a Necro that you can't with Rit i.e. Spirit Transfer.

If you want more than pure healing, then consider other templates. The N/Rt can't provide hex removal, and it can't provide "Fall Back!" or UA's instant res either. It can't maintain Strength of Honour the way a Smiter can, and so on. Know what you want, and choose your builds accordingly.

Relyk · Mar 15, 2012, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Switch to a Mesmer. sos+sogm+st is a very defensive setup, so there aren't many places where it would be suitable. Any other builds are just a gimmicky setup, except perhaps a resto rit lord. You'd probably use it in high damage areas, especially places you aren't familiar with such as DoA (Foundry and Veil), Urgoz, UW, and possibly 3-man areas like WoC content. In 3 man areas, you're better off with more offense or MM, but playing it safe never hurts.

It's a temporary setup at best, you should find that having 3 rits becomes unnecessary for most situations and go for more damage instead.

Sagittario · Mar 15, 2012, 03:48 PM // 15:48

There's a big number of possibilities, SoGM low-energy spirits, RL low-energy spirits, ST high-energy spirits, ST prot, SoS, Wanderlust.
They can resto well, but it's waste because necros can handle healing as good as rits, but only rits can handle spirits well.

As for me, on rit I use Razah as mes and on mes I use him as rit.

InStars · Mar 15, 2012, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I wonder how heroes use Splinter barrage or DWG nowadays...

Has their AI improved after these updates?

Sagittario · Mar 15, 2012, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by InStars

I wonder how heroes use Splinter barrage or DWG nowadays...

Has their AI improved after these updates?

They use splinter awesomely on every ally/party member with psychical weapon.

agrios · Mar 16, 2012, 03:00 PM // 15:00

So...a third Rit is basically useless and I should turn Razah into a Mez? It looks like it.

Daesu · Mar 16, 2012, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I would say go for the third mesmer over the third rit. You can't go wrong with more dom mesmer goodness.

If you want to go with the third rit as a healer instead of a ST, for example you are already bringing a N/Mo MM with PS, an alternative is to make him a Wanderlust+Earthbind restore. Yes it is a little gimmicky and that added defense is not needed in most areas, but it works great and has some synergy with the other 2 rits.

agrios · Mar 16, 2012, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If you want to go with the third rit as a healer instead of a ST, for example you are already bringing a N/Mo MM with PS, an alternative is to make him a Wanderlust+Earthbind restore. Yes it is a little gimmicky and that added defense is not needed in most areas, but it works great and has some synergy with the other 2 rits.

How would be a setup like this? I mean...wich builds? Could you suggest one?

Daesu · Mar 16, 2012, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

How would be a setup like this? I mean...wich builds? Could you suggest one?

I only bring a setup like this when I am playing my rit. So you have your rit as a SoS, Xandra as a SoGM, Razah as a mesmer, and Zei Ri (or a merc rit) as a ST or a Wanderlust+Earthbind restoration healer.

For energy management on the wanderlust rit, you can put in about 6 points to channeling and bring spirit siphon. This would provide better defenses for elite areas. The other good thing is that it also synergizes with any other KD skills that you bring along with your team as Earthbind bypasses monster stun immunity.

Cursed Cobain · Mar 17, 2012, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Would having a SoS, ST and SoGM be worth it if I bring a 16 command para hero with anthem envy. Or would it be better if i replace those with other dps?

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 17, 2012, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I have him on my Paragon, with which i use 3 paragons, an Orders, and two spirit spammers with Splinter Weapon. (Razah is set as Mesmer, for a different team build, so its why I don't use him). It works well, my damage is slightly lower than I'd like it to be, but I can't complain, no one dies

Daesu · Mar 18, 2012, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursed Cobain

Would having a SoS, ST and SoGM be worth it if I bring a 16 command para hero with anthem envy. Or would it be better if i replace those with other dps?

Without knowing the rest of your build, I would say replace the command para with other higher dps builds in general. If you need any important command skills, you can always make some of your casters /P and fit those skills into their skill bars.

hunter · Mar 19, 2012, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

I have him on my Paragon, with which i use 3 paragons, an Orders, and two spirit spammers with Splinter Weapon. (Razah is set as Mesmer, for a different team build, so its why I don't use him). It works well, my damage is slightly lower than I'd like it to be, but I can't complain, no one dies

Untill paras are changed somehow, i would say having more than 1 is a liability. 1 para is all you need for any useful para skills you might want tbh. ANd that double splinter might be overkill. You are better off with an offensive communing rit instead of the second channeling.

The main problem with paras i find is the lack of hard dmg reduction outside of TINTF so even though you seem to be stacking on those nice armor buffs ( SY in combination with stand your ground) all it takes is 1 pack is ether beasts and your party goes poof. This is mainly because unless you wanna go ultra defensive on a 3 paragon party, you usually forego shelter, which is your main defense vs ether beasts
- yaya you can micro your heroes and spread em out but its a pain in the ass in the long run and different 7 hero comps completely forego the need to micro and spread heroes around

So basically, its like a catch 22, add in a ST defensive rit to survive armor ignoring dmg but ur build becomes overkill vs other non armor ignoring dmg. Don't add this ST, and you might as well skip some areas in Elona and prepare to have a miserable time...

(In before some smartass comes in telling me that you can micro and get stuff done with a full paragon party)

Morte66 · Mar 19, 2012, 06:04 PM // 18:04

For a heal and prot character, I'm partial to this Rt/Mo build:

12+1+3 Restoration, 10+1 Soul Twisting, 8 Protection Prayers
Spirit Channeling, Life, Protective Was Kaolai, Mend Body And Soul, Spirit Light, and 3 from Aegis, Shield of Absorption, Protetctive Spirit or Remove Hex to suit the team.

Solid healing, more reliable energy than a necro (it works with nothing dying), strong condition removal (assuming you have spirits elsewhere), hex removal for physicals, and monk prots beat weapon spells any day. I think it's the best single character heal and prot backline I've used. The issue with it is that I might prefer a pair of part-timers, so they can deal damage when not healing.

Jk Arrow · Mar 19, 2012, 07:16 PM // 19:16

I don't seem to find a 3rd Rit all that useful. After experimenting on my rit, Razah became a 3rd mesmer. And also for that reason, I haven't been motivated to do WoC in HM on any toon.

I also tend to prefer n/rt healer over rt/ healer. But to be fair, I typically don't run pure healer builds and run hybrids instead.

JK

Gabs88 · Mar 20, 2012, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Since I have 8 mercs my team setups might be a little different from many others here. But I do currently keep 4 mesmers, 3 ritualists and 1 necro. And when I play melee I bring a monk too.

The team setups I use are:

Player char: AP caller / caster
Panic
Esurge
Esurge
SB-Resto
SoS
SoGm
AoTL/ST depending on zone.

Player char: Melee
Panic
Esurge / Ineptitude / RoJ
SB-Resto
SoS
SoGM
AoTL/ST depending on zone.
RoJ / UA Smite

Anyhow, since I have the choice of bringing both multiple mesmers and multiple ritualists I don't really have to choose either or. But what I can say is that there are very few zones where the ST is picked over AoTL.

The SB-Resto (Shared Burden|Wandering Eye|Signet of Clumsiness|Accumulated Pain|Hex Eater Signet|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|FoMF or Ress Sig) is definitely a very strong contender to the traditional N/Rt. I only bring 2 heals on this character + 2 heals on SoS + 3 Prot skills on MM as my entire backline when playing casters and IMO, that's more then enough. When playing a physical I add in a smiter or two and thats it. So if I had to restrain myself to 3 mesmers I'd bring either this or an esurge mesmer.

hunter · Mar 20, 2012, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Since I have 8 mercs my team setups might be a little different from many others here.

UNless you somehow managed to beat the game with 8 mesmers, it really doesn't matter because any optimal hero build doesn't require more than 2-3 heroes of each class

Gabs88 · Mar 20, 2012, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

UNless you somehow managed to beat the game with 8 mesmers, it really doesn't matter because any optimal hero build doesn't require more than 2-3 heroes of each class

Clicked accept a bit early. Hence why the post came out unfinished. I generally agree with this but my SB-Resto build is IMO in most cases superior to N/Rt healer so I bring 4 mesmers for my caster characters.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 20, 2012, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

even though you seem to be stacking on those nice armor buffs ( SY in combination with stand your ground) all it takes is 1 pack is ether beasts and your party goes poof.

I don't use Save Yourselves. Where on earth in my post did I say I use that? I use Stand Your Ground only, but, why in hell would I use Stand Your Ground with Save Yourselves anyway? They don't stack, it would only benefit me, which I can just use I Am Unstoppable if I were to use it.

I don't use Paragons for speed, I use them because I love them, and I love showing that there is more to them than spamming a stupid skill. My builds ARE slow, but they are SAFE. I can complete anything with them, save UW HM or DoA HM. It takes a while, but I don't need to rush through it all.

Edit: Didn't read your post fully. You also said two Splinter Weapons might be overkill. They need to maintain Splinter on FOUR paragons, one using it is hard. One Rit is Channeling Magic with spirits and Restoration, the other is Channeling Magic with Communing spirits.